Draft Animal Power – Draft animals and sustainable land stewardship › Forums › Community of Interest › Community › Alarming Law proposed!!!- Includes discussion of operating farms under gov. reg.
- March 12, 2009 at 2:54 pm #40307
This is the scariest stuff I have seen come out of the government in my lifetime..March 12, 2009 at 4:36 pm #50765Ronnie TuckerParticipant
maybe it is a regional thing jason and i are both from south of the mason dixion line i too find this upsetting our freedoms wait until they come to the woods and tell you that log is big you cant snake that with your team it may be too late there is no one to defend you we must resist and defeat this uncalled for federal intervention GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH PATRICK HENRY VA 1776March 12, 2009 at 4:43 pm #50760
Jason if you are interested in reading more links about this topic, a thread on this was started in Feb., you may have missed it. http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=1197March 12, 2009 at 5:23 pm #50745
I did miss it last time, sorry, it came from another source this time, with a different heading and I did check it out.
We will have to stand up or be run over and organic farming will disappear, which seems to be the intention of the backers of this legislation.
I suppose our best/only option is to use the contact your legislator link provided by Happy when Hitched.
Thanks all,March 12, 2009 at 5:35 pm #50753RodParticipant
I appreciate your keeping us informed about this kind of thing.March 12, 2009 at 6:00 pm #50757jen judkinsParticipant
I just recieved this email from NOFA-NH
From the PA association of sustainable Ag…
things may not be as bad as it seems.
The following information about a bill now before Congress, HR 875, was developed by our friends at Food and Water Watch, and forwarded to us by the National Sustainable Ag Coalition (NSAC), of which PASA is a member. This Myth/Fact sheet was developed to help answer some of the rumors that are fairly rampant on the Internet right now. We will keep a close eye on the situation, and share further updates from NSAC as they become available.
Myths and Facts
H.R. 875 – The Food Safety Modernization Act
· MYTH: H.R. 875 “makes it illegal to grow your own garden” and would result in the “criminalization of the backyard gardner.”
FACT: There is no language in the bill that would regulate, penalize, or shut down backyard gardens. This bill is focused on ensuring the safety of foods sold in supermarkets.
· MYTH: H.R. 875 would mean a “goodbye to farmers markets” because the bill would “require such a burdensome complexity of rules, inspections, licensing, fees, and penalties for each farmer who wishes to sell locally – a fruit stand, at a farmers market.”
FACT: There is no language in the bill that would result in farmers markets being regulated, penalized any fines, or shut down. Farmers markets would be able to continue to flourish under the bill. In fact, the bill would insist that imported foods meet strict safety standards to ensure that unsafe imported foods are not competing with locally-grown foods.
· MYTH: H.R. 875 would result in the “death of organic farming.”
FACT: There is no language in the bill that would stop organic farming. The National Organic Program (NOP) is under the jurisdiction of the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). The Food Safety Modernization Act only addresses food safety issues under the jurisdiction of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
· MYTH: The bill would implement a national animal ID system.
FACT: There is no language in the bill that would implement a national animal ID system. Animal identification issues are under the jurisdiction of the USDA. The Food Safety Modernization Act addresses issues under the jurisdiction of the FDA.
· MYTH: The bill is supported by the large agribusiness industry.
FACT: No large agribusiness companies have expressed support for this bill. This bill is being supported by several Members of Congress who have strong progressive records on issues involving farmers markets, organic farming, and locally-grown foods. Also, H.R. 875 is the only food safety legislation that has been supported by all the major consumer and food safety groups, including:
— Center for Foodborne Illness Research & Prevention
— Center for Science in the Public Interest
— Consumer Federation of America
— Consumers Union
— Food & Water Watch
— The Pew Charitable Trusts
— Safe Tables Our Priority
— Trust for America’s Health
· MYTH: The bill will pass the Congress next week without amendments or debate.
FACT: Food safety legislation has yet to be considered by any Congressional committee.March 12, 2009 at 7:20 pm #50772HalParticipant
Jen, thank you for posting that forward. I feel that it is a good antidote to some of the hyperbole that I have heard about food safety programs. Of course we have to keep a watchful eye on these things (I don’t support policing small farms like they are criminals, of course), but it seems excessive to say that any program could kill off organic farming, given the growing strength of organic farms, farmers markets, CSAs, etc. I think that there would be public outrage before organic farming could die off (but maybe I am too optimistic). I hope nobody will get too annoyed at me for saying that.March 12, 2009 at 8:00 pm #50749Carl RussellModerator
Although it is interesting to see where this discussion went, and to think about the strategy that started the mythical alert, that eventually got sent to Jason, these are the types of things that really don’t excite me.
Although the concept is frightening, just as NAIS, I grew up in a time in Vermont when people made up their own minds about how they followed the law. I have been asked many times about how I feel about government regulation of the way I chose to live, and I say “What regulation”?
I have sold raw milk, and farm slaughtered meat illegally for years, and I refuse to let any law limit my expression of what I know to be my unalienable right to engage in the use of my land in commerce with my neighbors.
Once you think you have to fight to protect your rights, you’ve lost them. The truths that are self evident give you the right to affirm your rights without permission of some government that has tried to take them away from you.
CarlMarch 12, 2009 at 10:50 pm #50746
Thank goodness this was not true as suggested by the forwarded emails. This site ends up being a clearinghouse of information, thank you Jen. Also thanks for not shooting the messenger, yet…
I still oppose any unnecessary government proposals and programs…which may be something everyone on here can agree on….maybe?March 12, 2009 at 11:52 pm #50761
I believe that there are 3 sides to any story, your side, my side and somewhere in the middle is the truth. I think the alarmist web pages are an extreme, but I also don’t trust a bunch of consumer organizations either. Overall from the little of the actual bill that I have read, it seems vague and open to a multitude of interpretations and gives the government too much control, and for those reasons alone I oppose this bill/proposal.
ErikaMarch 12, 2009 at 11:53 pm #50754RodParticipant
My experience with government regulations is you get them initially in small increments, bite size, and as time goes on they often grow and become more complex and intrusive. Like the frog in the hot water, I’m sure most have heard the way to boil a live frog is not to put it in hot water to start but in cold water and slowly raise the temperature. It’s the same with regulations, start small and “improve” a little at a time. This technique is not lost on the ruling class, Oops I meant the Government regulators.March 13, 2009 at 1:26 am #50758jen judkinsParticipant
I am not in favor of this bill. But it appears that there has been some ‘inflamatory exaggeration’ of its ramifications, So I simply wanted to balance the pendulum abit.
I agree with the ‘slippery slope’ approach. Once an idea takes hold, its effect can be much more widespread or invasive than origninally thought. So it pays to pay attention…to the details, good or bad.March 13, 2009 at 3:26 am #50768Robert MoonShadowParticipant
I agree with the idea that “give them an inch…”
But I also very much agree with Carl; as I mentioned to my boss about NAIS & the effect it would have on moving his mules around from wilderness jobs all over the West, his reply was: “Not really… unless I choose to let it.” I read somewhere on this site about some farmer standing up & saying he wasn’t going to follow the mandatory NAIS law in his state, and was arrested for it… should’ve kept his mouth shut & just gone about his business… who’d have known? We shouldn’t allow ourselves to be put in the position of defending our rights… they should be in the position of defending their attempts to take them away.March 13, 2009 at 5:06 pm #50762
Jenn, I figured that you were not for this bill and it was good of you to provide another perspective, balance is a good thing even when both sides have their faults you can pick out common points and go from there.
Gentlemen, I am all for civil disobedience when it comes to defending my rights or my way of life. I know that there are many farmers that do things the way that they see fit and some take extreme cautions not to get caught. I think the guy that Robert was referring to was a dairy farmer in WI that felt that the NAIS was against his religion (Amish/Mennonite) and refused to join, I think that it may be mandatory in WI. Sometimes no matter how much you refuse to play along and mind your own business the government comes along and tries to make and example out of you. I found an article with a few of such examples, there are a couple small false facts(CSA started in Japan not Europe, and I don’t know of any farmer that gets close to $1.50 a gallon for milk today) but it doesn’t appear to be terribly extremist, the author seems to be pro small farmer. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071203/gumpert
The feds and the states are making the slope a little more slippery eveyday. Example: In NYS we have been required to have a current coggins test for any horse being transported on public roads. This is a test for EIA or “swamp fever” it is highly infectious and the government program of testing for it has done a very effective job of nearly eradicating this disease. You need to have proof of this test in your vehicle when you are traveling with equines. Today there are two forms of proof, the old school piece of paper or the new and improved shiny colored plastic credit card sized thing with a picture of your horse on it. If you want the shiny plastic you have to register your livestock premise with the NYanimalID program, and guess what, they forward your info to the USDA and APHIS, now you are really in the system. Where do they catch you? If you choose to participate in a fair, show or other highly organized event you must have proof of negative coggins. If you roll like Carl and a lot of other logger types, you just get in your rig and drive, but there may be a time when an officer of the law stops you and feels like taking your time and asks to see your negative coggins test and that is where it starts. Most don’t want to bother with animal issues but as municipalities call for an increase in tickets issued to boost department income they will begin to look for anything to make a buck and keep their jobs.
I agree with many of the points in this thread, but the problems will not go away if we simply ignore them. Even if we hide our operations from the public or the road the technology exists to see beyond our privacy hedge. We need to work together and hope for the best so that the government does not get out of control and starts to actually look over our privacy hedge, well at least not more than they do already.
ErikaMarch 13, 2009 at 5:36 pm #50750Carl RussellModerator
We each see the way we can have the most affective involvement in protecting our interests. I see the world from the perspective of a sovereign individual, and chose to work closely with people who I have direct involvement with. I realize that I live in a time when there is a governing system that places expectations on me, and those around me, but there was a time when that was not true.
When I was 11 years old I was in a ski program. At the end of the season we had a race. I was by no means anywhere near the most capable skiier, but one after the other, the better skiiers missed the last gate. I was the only one who went through the gate in the right direction, and until the instructors agreed, I received a fair amount of ridicule from my friends. I was the only valid finisher, thus getting a blue ribbon.
I am not, nor ever have been a competitor, nor an athlete, but what I learned early was to trust my instincts regardless of the conventions around me, and even more certainly regardless of the opinions of those who may judge me, including the so-called justice system.
I agree that we all need to work together, but we need not limit ourselves to an artificial arena of political and economic power brokers, otherwise we just get led around by our noses from one alarming issue to the next.
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