- December 11, 2015 at 11:07 pm #86739
I need to decide on an arch and get it built pretty soon. I have been looking through old posts but the pictures dont seem to work for me. I have the plans for the Healing Harvest arch.
What designs do you guys like the most? And why? I was going to just build a simple square shaped arch like this http://www.plowdenhorselogging.com/2013/04/new-arch.html should I just mount the pole socket at 90degrees from the vertical legs?
Why does the healing harvest arch have the uprights sweep back 14 degrees to where the axle stubs are connected?
Thanks for the helpDecember 12, 2015 at 12:41 pm #86740dominiquer60Moderator
What do you want in an arch? Walk behind, ride on, big wood, little wood, versatility?
Sam’s arch is built for big stick harvest for custom timber frames that he has built in the past. It is larger than most folks need, but it has a few nice features. One of my favorites is a human comfort, easy on, easy off. I don’t care for the models that you have to scramble up to ride on. The step in front of the wheel is a safer way to me to get on and off while I drive for him.
He uses 90 angles in his construction and has recently added some features like the drop bar. It makes it a lot easier to handle several small sticks at the same time. However since his rig is so tall, standard chokers don’t always reach the chain slots on the bar. You can’t have it all, but you can pick and choose what might work best for you and make changes as needed. This photo shows Sam’s most recent changes, and easily his 5th major change on this design.
Attachments:You must be logged in to view attached files.December 12, 2015 at 4:46 pm #86744RonParticipant
I would agree it makes a big difference what you are going to do with an arch and what kind of logging? The first logging arch I made was an arch shaped wagon hitch from the back of a 14T JD baler I have also used the needle arm arch from abandoned balers. I find arches work good for big or heavy logs but a ,”Go Devil” is faster and can be loaded and unloaded much more efficiently on smaller logs.
ronDecember 12, 2015 at 7:51 pm #86745
I will be using the arch this winter as I learn to log with horses. The woodlots I am starting with will be mostly firewood and a few sawlogs. I am going to make an “all purpose” arch. I looked at sams pretty close at the field days and I dont plan on building something as beefy as his. If Sams arch is built like him, a hard working tank, then mine will have to be skinny and light….
I am very comfortable with metal fabrication, I’m hoping to get a better grasp on the engineering and design from those who are using them. Specifically the relationship to the chain hitch points and the axle stubs, wheel base, and tongue socket height.
Any pros and Cons of the arch designs that people are using on a regular basis?
ThanksDecember 12, 2015 at 11:36 pm #86749Crabapple FarmParticipant
On the angle question:
I think it makes more difference with big logs and a high hitch point.
A percentage of the draft at the chain hitch is transferred to tongue lift in relation to the degree that the hitch point is higher than the angle of draft. If the axles are in front of that point, more load will transfer to tongue lift. If the axles are behind that point, less (because that load is instead transferred into weight on the wheels). I hope that is clear.
If the axles are too far behind the chain hitch point, the log could hang in front of the axles, turning into weight on the tongue (instead of lift), which would also not be good.
Ideally, I suppose, the axles should be in line with the chain while in motion, whatever angle that is.
This is theoretical, based on a sketch I just made on a piece of paper. Someone with more logging experience with different carts can hopefully speak to how much practical difference it makes.
Harness type could also affect whether or not you would notice this effect.
-TevisDecember 13, 2015 at 11:23 am #86754carl nyParticipant
I can’t remember who it was but someone use to make one that converted a Pioneer cart to a log cart. I think they advertised in the column to the right. If you wanted a dedicated cart you could make one using this design. My son made one and we love it but then again we are not professional loggers. We use it for fire wood and logs for my sawmill when we are building some thing. We especially like the way the chains hook,you can unhook with any amount of tension on the chains. The chains come up through a slip hook and go to the side to a grab hook, slip hooks near the center of the cart and grab hooks on each side. We set the grab hook at a very slight angle to hinder it coming unhooked by it’s self. Just a little snap of the chain and it is unhooked. HTH
December 13, 2015 at 11:53 am #86756dominiquer60Moderator
- This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by dominiquer60.
Cut and paste Carl 🙂 Mark Cowdry, of Ragged View Farm, makes piggy back arches for the Pioneer forecart, they are reasonably priced. http://www.raggedviewfarm.com/index.php?nav=40
I didn’t mean to imply that you should build one like Sam’s, I meant that if you are starting from scratch like Sam, use features that make your work easier and don’t feel like version 1.0 is for life. Sure you want a good design to start with, but don’t feel stuck with it. I can’t talk technical about draft or fabrication, but I have used and been around a few styles of log arch, and if you want all purpose, I find the Barden cart very practical. I know Carl Russell is working on the plans, I look forward to having one made for me one of these years. Best wishes with your fabrication project.
December 13, 2015 at 1:11 pm #86761carl nyParticipant
- This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by dominiquer60.
Thanks Erika, I’m quite computer illiterate. And, yup that’s the one.
Carl nnyDecember 13, 2015 at 1:57 pm #86762
Thanks Erica, I know you didnt mean for me to make one like sams, I was just making a joke, when I was at the field days I asked whose it was and when the told me it was sams, I thought “ohh it is built like sam” 😉
I have seen pictures of carls barden cart. I will see if I can find some more pictures of that one too.
ThanksDecember 13, 2015 at 7:30 pm #86763Tyler SageParticipant
I am working with a fabricator on a log arch right now. I am using Jason Rutledge’s plans with few modifications. The modifications include a rail to protect the rider from falling forward and a mount to attach the pioneer seat assembly. I will show pictures when it gets made.
Healing Harvest Forest Foundation Arch Plans:
http://www.healingharvestforestfoundation.org/log-arch-plans.htmlDecember 13, 2015 at 9:58 pm #86764JayParticipant
For all around work of any kind and particularly being able to skid logs (and other things too) I am very partial to Mark’s Piggy back arch. I leave it on the cart all the time as it is so handy and versatile. I keep a chain or two on it. Just MHO. JayDecember 14, 2015 at 9:34 am #86766
I am leaning towards a seating and platform location layout similar to what the piggy back arch accomplishes, but moving the axles back so that they are slightly behind the chain hitching point like a john plowden arch.
I can’t seem to find any pictures of the barden cart now that I am looking for them, does anyone have any pictures they can post?
I have been reading the old posts about this same topic but I can’t seem to get any of the pictures to pop up. Sorry if this topic has already been covered.
Erica, Can you post some pictures of sam’s chain drop mechanism?
Thanks for all of the help so far….December 14, 2015 at 11:06 am #86767JMorrowParticipant
Not a great pic, but this link shows Tim Huppe at Sanborn Mills Farm with a Barden cart built for oxen.
-JakeDecember 14, 2015 at 1:01 pm #86770
I just found this video when I was looking for Barden cart info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34dH53R0eqI
It shows someone pulling a decent sized log with Mark’s Piggyback. it is hard to tell from the video but it doesn’t seem to be levering on the tongue as much as I thought it would with the hitch point being set back.
Is it just not obvious or is there really not that much leverage lifting the tongue?
I don’t know how I missed this thread in my searches up until this point.
Is there any news on being able to purchase some of these plans?
December 14, 2015 at 3:58 pm #86772Mark CowdreyParticipant
- This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by JaredWoodcock.
By setting the evener up as high as the log chain hitch point, the force is acting around and over the wheels rather than drawing them out from under the load, which would cause the tongue to rise.
For more info you can wade through this page: http://www.raggedviewfarm.com/index.php?nav=40
Feel free to get in touch if you have more questions.
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